Hope Community Church (Mike Lee, pastor), the Grace Brethren church in Raleigh, North Carolina, will be featuring a video interview with singer Bono (pictured) on Sunday, March 4 at 6 p.m.
Here is a bit of text from their promotion–to see the entire page click here.
“Sunday, March 4, 6:00 p.m., Hope’s auditorium with Hope’s own Band of Brothers performing live
“Sometimes God touches and transforms the lives of the most unusual people to carry out his work…
“Join us as we present an exclusive interview event with Bono, lead singer of the rock band U2 and TIME magazine’s 2005 Person of the Year. This is a rare opportunity to hear Bono share about his own spiritual journey as well as his passion to fight the dual tragedies of global poverty and AIDS.”
At the MTV lifetime award ceremony, the host introducing he and his band said, "They smoke,drink, use bad language, but have done more to cancel the debt in the third world countries then all the politicians combined."
Maybe so, but is this what we want our young people to model their lives after ?
Dave Patchin
Executive Pastor
Hope Community Church
Steve Oroszi
Dayton, Ohio.
Nate Dunlevy
Also from Dayton
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.
13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. I Peter 1: 13-16
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.
Psalm 1
1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. 2But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. 3And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. 5Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 6For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.
I believe that I would rather hear from God then Bono, though I realize that God will probably not draw as large a crowd ;-)
Ez 16:49
Nate Dunlevy
ndunlevy@gbim.org
Once again, it seems that it is impossible to have a discussion about these issues with a large segment of the church because any standard will be considered unloving.
Thanks for the help - "Searching"
1) Take a deep breath.
2) Attend this event or one like it. (church leaders from around the country that attended the WCA Leadership Summit were able to order a copy)
3) Pray that Bono's convictions, leadership, and partnership with churches will continue to help save thousands of AIDS infected children (God's children) around the world.
In this very interview, Bono said, "I never had a problem with Christ...I had problems with some Christians." (I can see why, Bono)
Bono also said, "We can grasp atonement...but not grace. But I'm much more interested in grace because I'm relying on it."
Hmmm. Grace. Mercy. Reaching a hurting world.
Happy to help. It was the first entry on my google. Although, I should have made you do the hard work, if you really wanted to know! :) Hope this makes you rejoice. Love and peace!
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/10892
1. Hope Community Church loves Jesus. Pastor Mike Lee is a wonderful pastor and an inspiration to me as I begin serving as a pastor. Whatever you might think of this church's methods (personally I love them), can't we at least begin by recognizing that this church is trying to be both relevant and faithful? Can't we begin by affirming each other and asking questions rather than throwing pot shots?
2. Tone is so important in these conversations. When we come across as arrogant, judgmental or closed-minded, we'll stir up angry responses rather than helpful dialogue. We throw the word "love" around so easily in our churches. To both sides, let's infuse that love into our conversations.
3. For those who want to take a serious look at this issue, let me refer you to "Walk On: The Spiritual Journey of U2" by Steve Stockman. This book is available on amazon.com for less than $12. A youth pastor friend referred me to this book, and even though I was only able to read the first chapter, I want to finish it and I think it would be helpful to this discussion. At least we would be going to the source.
4. I think this lyric expresses U2 well.
"Jesus can you find the time to throw a drowning man a line? Peace on earth."
Maybe their message is murky and symbolic, but it is present.
5. Jesus said that prostitutes and tax collectors would enter the Kingdom of heaven before the moral people of his day. He said we would be judged on whether we handed out cups of cold water or visited people in prison. He challenged us to give away our stuff, consider others as more important and always choose love, especially when it comes to the sick, the marginalized and the poor. Jesus held in perfect balance the tension of whether the gospel was about personal morality or social justice. He proved to us that it can't be one or the other. It must be both. Our faith tradition typically errs on the side of personal morality. Obviously Bono would err on the side of social justice. Thankfully, God's grace and his kingdom is big enough for us all. And maybe Bono can teach us a thing or two along the way.
This is just what Satan delights in, dividing the church. We live in an ever-changing culture. This does not mean our message changes, Jesus is still the only way to the Father..but our methods may and must change. I was raised very conservatively in the Grace Brethren Church...but as I get older and I see the world around me, my heart longs to use a variety of methods with one outcome...seeing people come to put their faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ... Let's open our eyes...the fields are white with harvest...and if it takes Bono to help us go out into the fields then let's run.
Mike Lee
Hope Community Church
Mikel@gethope.net
never be able to proclaim, "See how they love each other." Grace and meacy were offered to us freely. How much more then are we to show it others. Especially those of the household of faith.
Steve Oroszi.
Dayton, Ohio.
A great cultural divide is growing rapidly among us, and it should be apparent to all of us by now.
I am finding it increasingly difficult to maintain a sincere oneness of spirit with so many who devalue or sharply differ with my convictions re: ministry. We are brethren, but we are so far apart in our assessment of this particular issue.
By the way, the unity of spirit we pocess is a reality that is found in Christ alone. It is nothing that we manufacture or produce bu our own power, strength and wisdom.
Just a thought for your consideration.
Grace and Peace.
from "Searching"
Frankly, I have found the discussion to be helpful to me in my thinking through some of these things in regards to ministry.
I believe that discussion is a helpful thing if conducted in a Christ-honoring way. A couple of things that have struck me about the context of the discussion, however:
1. A few posts that argue for "grace" I don't find to be very "graceful" in tone - maybe I misunderstood -- ie., sanctimonious, Pharisee, etc. (at least we didn't get "white washed sepulchers full of dead men's bones").
2. Why is there the assumption that if a person raises a question about Bono (in this particular discussion), then they are more concerned about bad language than feeding the poor (or doing something in their own community for the needy). Why the either or statements? I doin't find those kinds of statements to be real helpful in discussion. We need to learn to discuss things intelligently and in a Christ honoring way. Iron sharpening iron doesn't mean that we all agree on issues at the beginning, in the middle, or even at the end, but we can help each other to think more broadly than when we started (no matter which side of this particular issue -- or any future issue might be).
I have been moved by this discussion to find out more about Bono. From his statements I believe that he is a confessing believer in Jesus Christ (I didn't know that before!) and rejoice in that fact. I believe that I see some things differently than when this all began (in spite of what, to me, appeared to be caustic statements).
Thanks for the forum!
Being thinking about the concept of calling folks "Pharisees." Seems to me that the spirit of a Pharisee is that of "standing on the street corner" and proudly declaring that "my sin isn't as great as your sin." Our sin, whether it is not loving my neighbor as myself or any unwholesome word that proceeds out of my mouth, is what sent Jesus to the cross. I suspect each of us can be found possessing the spirit of a Pharisee in ourselves. Father, forgives us!
My $0.02
If you cannot attend, you can download, for a very reasonable price his talk during Stand to Reason's Masters Series last winter. I heard the talk live and I cannot recommend it highly enough. STR's website is www.str.org. You can also click on radio, register and listen to one of his talks on this topic in the radio section.
I think Greg's talk will be a good starting point.
Let's have a good and free flowing discussion. It's just not helpful to have the Pharisee and childish cards trotted out so early in the discussion. The fact that someone questions the wisdom of using Bono (I've heard the interview and I think it's neutral: I don't think it does a lot to advance the gospel, but that's my take) is not a personal attack. It's a legitimate question.
And, Nate, just for the record: Bono actually praised President Bush for at last year's National Prayer Breakfast. And Bono is not without his problems. It was reported last year that U2 laid off a bunch of employees and moved some operations to another country where, guess what, taxes were lower.
The issues of politics and AIDS are very complex and just throwing money at the problem will not solve anything. Ultimately, if 6500 Africans who die of AIDS each day are spared the ravages of AIDS, there are still issues to address.
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/frontpagepdfs/2006/14467.pdf
Telling quote: "Little or no information about U2’s global operation is in the public domain but they are known to employ some of the world’s top tax experts to enable them to maximise their income."
I guess what some would have him do is crawl up in a corner somewhere and not make any waves...Anything goes, but if you speak out, watch out, you will offend. Frankly, I'm not worried about what others may think if I feel the need to speak out....Yes, we Grace Brethren are in trouble but the reasons I am sure are not the same. Can't we still care for each other even if our differnces are great ?
My spirit cried as I read this blog.
Such divisive commentary should not occur between brothers. It's no wonder we are so ineffective as a "church", we set such a poor example to the "world".
If our Lord and Savoir could fellowship with harlots and publicans to save those, which are lost, I see no reason to censure Mike Lee or the leadership at Hope Community Church, for following the example of the Lord they so urgently love.
I have been a member of Hope Community for over 7 seven years. During that period I have seen Mike use contemporary medium, in unorthodox and at times controversial (case in point) ways to drive home the core message of our faith. That we are all sinners and that without the saving grace of Christ we are all lost.
I can assure you the leadership of Hope did not consider presenting this event without a great deal of prayer and discernment.
I need not defend them; the Lord himself honors their ministry, with the fruit being born. I must though close with the comment that as a Christian of 30 years, of all the pastors and churches I have had opportunity to know, I've yet to encounter any one person or "body" who mirrors Christ and His love as Mike Lee and Hope Community Church.
David Brenchley
hisheirs@bellsouth.net
Amen & Amen!
Well stated brother Dave.
Remember God loves and forgives the person who trusts Christ for salvation and supports Bono as much as God loves the person who trusts Christ and is skeptical or denounces Bono as much as God loves Bono as a person who has professed his trust in Christ (check out the new book U2 by U2 a huge book of just them talking about their life, or Walk On, The Spiritual Jouney of U2)
We have to show grace for people who's expression of their christianity is more unorthodox (expression wise or maybe even theologically) than ours, trusting that even though we may not be comfortable with how they are expressing their Christianity that we can trust that he who began a good work in them will be faithful to complete it.
On the flip side those who have unorthodox approaches to Christianity have to have grace for those who they might see as "judgmental" or "pharsaic", understanding the exact same thing, that as a person who has placed their trust in Christ both people are in the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. The key word there is process. What seems to be difficult for all of us is accepting that your process may look different from mine. That the things God is growing, changing, purging in your life will be on a different timetable from what's going on in mine. Granted they are all ruled by the same God and the same character of Christ, and the same scripture. We all believe in this conversation here that there is one absolute truth revealed through scripture, but we have to be willing to accept that there are inumerable applications of that truth dependant upon our spiritual, familial, theological, social etc... contexts. In the same way there is one way to God through Christ (I am the way, the truth and the life), but there are a billion ways to Christ as different as each person who places faith in Christ.
I apologize for being long winded and preachy (a weakness of mine) and really I just wanted to contribute 2 cents to the conversation (vanity, another weakness), but I pray we remember the grace that's been extended to us.